0:00 From the New York Times, I'm [music]
0:01 Michael Bubaro. This is the daily. In
0:04 bright red, Texas, James Telerico is
0:07 trying to [music] become the first
0:08 Democrat to be elected to the United
0:10 States Senate in nearly 40 years [music]
0:13 in what's become by far the most
0:15 expensive and ferocious campaign of this
0:18 year's midterm elections. Today we speak
0:22 [music] with Telerico about the kind of
0:24 race he's running, the highly personal
0:26 campaign against [music] him, and what
0:28 he wants Democrats to do if they take
0:31 back control of Congress. It's [music]
0:34 Tuesday, October 20th.
0:40 >> Hey there.
0:41 >> Hey, how are you?
0:43 >> Good. Can you hear me?
0:44 >> I can. Can you hear me?
0:45 >> I can. Thank you for joining us,
0:48 Representative James Telerico. Welcome
0:49 to the Daily. Oh, thank you for having
0:51 me.
0:51 >> My pleasure. I know you just emerged
0:54 from a really nasty flu, arguably the
0:57 most famous flu in modern campaign
0:59 history.
1:00 >> Flu gate. Yeah.
1:02 >> So, I know you have a lot of campaigning
1:04 to make up for, so it means a lot that
1:06 you found the time for us. I just want
1:09 to get out of the way. We asked your
1:11 opponent, Ken Paxton, the Republican
1:13 attorney general in Texas, for an
1:14 interview as well. And so far, we
1:16 haven't locked anything down. So, stay
1:18 tuned. I want to explain, Representative
1:22 why we're talking to you at this
1:24 specific moment in this midterm campaign
1:27 about two weeks out from election day.
1:30 And that's because what's become clear
1:32 in our coverage on the show and really
1:34 across Times coverage is that a good
1:37 number of disillusioned Republican
1:38 voters are upset enough with President
1:40 Trump that they are unusually open to
1:43 voting for Democrats in this election,
1:45 even in very red states. And nowhere is
1:48 that dynamic we've been talking about on
1:50 more vivid display than your race in
1:54 Texas. This is a state that President
1:56 Trump won in 2024 by 14 points and where
2:00 you have nevertheless been leading in
2:01 the polls now for weeks. Which is why I
2:04 think it's safe to say you've become the
2:07 Democrat that Republicans fear the most
2:09 in these midterms. they are throwing an
2:12 extraordinarily expensive and ferocious
2:15 campaign against you. So between those
2:19 two polls of being the rare Democrat who
2:21 might flip Texas for the first time in
2:23 decades and this really aggressive
2:25 campaign by Republicans to make sure
2:27 that never happens, how does it feel to
2:28 be the guy in the middle of all of that
2:30 right now?
2:31 >> Well, we are still very much the
2:33 underdogs. We're going up against the
2:35 most corrupt politician in Texas who is
2:38 backed by the most powerful man in the
2:40 world and the richest man in the world.
2:42 Both the president and Elon Musk are
2:44 backing our opponent Ken Paxton. And so,
2:47 uh, we are the underdogs until the last
2:49 vote is counted. And you're exactly
2:51 right. They have already poured $200
2:54 million into this race. They spend it on
2:57 attack ads against me, making me look as
2:59 scary as possible. And it's because Elon
3:02 Musk is trying to buy his own personal
3:04 US senator. But I really do believe that
3:07 on November 3rd, our state is going to
3:10 send the world's first trillionaire a
3:12 very clear message that Texas is not for
3:15 sale.
3:16 >> I want to talk about what has unfolded
3:19 over the past couple of days and weeks
3:22 as all this money and muscle has been
3:24 thrown at you because it's quite
3:25 singular. I mean, just over the past
3:27 week, Republicans have claimed back to
3:29 the famous flu, you were checked into an
3:32 Ohio mental institution, basically that
3:34 you that you went crazy. And no less
3:37 than the vice president of the United
3:39 States, JD Vance,
3:41 >> has doubled down on a claim, if I can
3:44 distill his remarks, that you are a
3:45 pervert
3:47 >> with a problematic online search
3:48 history. I mean, campaigns have always
3:51 been full of personal attacks. They've
3:53 always been negative. But
3:54 >> yeah,
3:55 >> how do you interpret this quite extreme
3:57 version of that?
3:58 >> Yeah, I mean I think this is an example
4:00 of what I call the rage economy.
4:02 Conspiracy theorists can post anything
4:05 they want online. Politicians can say
4:08 anything they want online. The poster
4:11 gets clicks. We all get angry on both
4:14 sides and no one's life gets any better.
4:17 And so it's tragic because I think so
4:19 many of us go to these platforms because
4:21 we are searching for connection and
4:23 instead we fall into this broken
4:24 business model that leaves us lonelier.
4:26 Uh it leaves us more disconnected than
4:28 when we hopped on the platform in the
4:31 first place. So I know I'm kind of the
4:32 latest example of this, but it's really
4:34 a systemic problem that's hurting all of
4:36 us, not just me and and my campaign.
4:38 >> Well, I want to describe very briefly
4:41 because I think it will help get us to
4:43 the story of who you really are. what
4:46 this money and Musk behind a tremendous
4:48 amount of it is being used to say about
4:51 you.
4:52 >> James Telerico [music] is weird.
4:55 >> Very weird.
4:56 >> Defending Trans Texas Texans is
4:57 something we have to do every day.
4:59 >> That you are woke, that you are overly
5:01 focused on social issues.
5:03 >> Terrio supported using taxpayer dollars
5:06 for sex change surgeries on young
5:08 children
5:09 >> like trans rights
5:10 >> and even said denying your child's
5:12 gender identity is abusive. Modern
5:14 science obviously recognizes that there
5:16 [music] are many more than two
5:18 biological sexes. In fact, there are
5:20 six.
5:20 >> To the trans kids watching at home, I
5:23 just want to say I love you.
5:25 >> That your Christianity is woowoo [music]
5:28 and leftwing [laughter]
5:29 out of the mainstream.
5:31 >> Radical liberal James Terico for they
5:34 them,
5:35 >> not you,
5:36 >> Texas.
5:37 >> And that you're not really a moderate at
5:39 all and you're not right for Texas. And
5:43 so let's ask you, you know, who you
5:46 actually are and where you came from and
5:47 how it brought you to this moment and to
5:49 this campaign for US Senate.
5:52 >> Yeah. And I think a lot of these attack
5:54 ads are off topic because what we're all
5:58 concerned about here in Texas is the
6:00 rising cost of living. The fact that no
6:02 matter how hard we work, no matter how
6:04 much we stretch and save and sacrifice,
6:08 those ends never seem to meet. And it's
6:10 because this system, this economic
6:12 system and this political system have
6:14 been rigged against us. I first
6:16 experienced this broken system
6:19 personally. Before I was ever a a
6:22 politician or a candidate, I was a
6:23 public school teacher and I taught sixth
6:26 grade language arts at Roads Middle
6:28 School, home of the Fight and Wildcats
6:30 on the west side of of San Antonio. The
6:32 west side is this beautiful historic
6:35 neighborhood. It's also one of the
6:37 poorest zip codes in the entire state of
6:39 Texas.
6:39 >> This was when you were in Teach for
6:41 America.
6:41 >> That's right. And it was in 2011, right
6:43 after our state legislature in Texas cut
6:47 more than $5 billion from public
6:50 education in our state. And so I saw the
6:52 impacts of those cuts firsthand. I saw
6:55 how decisions made in the halls of power
6:59 hurt flesh and blood human beings.
7:02 >> How did it hurt?
7:03 >> Yeah. At one point I had 45 students in
7:06 one classroom and there weren't enough
7:08 desks
7:09 >> for all those kids. Yeah. Very large.
7:11 And it was after lunch. So you can
7:12 imagine middle schoolers after lunch in
7:15 a giant packed classroom. It was just
7:17 chaos. And and I had kids because there
7:20 weren't enough desks sitting on the air
7:21 conditioning unit.
7:22 >> Wow.
7:23 >> I remember distinctly thinking this is
7:25 the wealthiest country in the world and
7:27 we've got children sitting on the air
7:29 conditioning unit. and and that was a um
7:33 a radicalizing experience for me. And
7:35 then when a seat in that very same
7:38 legislature that had cut those $5
7:39 billion opened up in my hometown of
7:42 Round Rock, Texas, I threw my hat in the
7:44 ring. I was 28 years old. I had never
7:46 run for office before. I was a a
7:49 Democrat running in a Trump district.
7:52 And I was told by, [snorts] you know,
7:54 the powers that be in the Democratic
7:55 party that that race was a lost cause
7:57 and I shouldn't waste my time on it.
7:59 They told me I was a little too young. I
8:02 was I didn't have the money, didn't have
8:03 the political connections to to win a
8:05 race like that. But, you know, we ran an
8:07 aggressive, at times unorthodox campaign
8:10 that that brought people together. Uh we
8:12 practiced a politics of unity. And on
8:15 election night, we flipped that district
8:17 with 51% of the vote. And now I'm in my
8:20 fourth term in the Texas House.
8:21 >> Well, I want to talk a little bit about
8:23 what happens to you in the legislature.
8:25 You have a reputation for working
8:27 closely with Republicans on a number of
8:30 pieces of legislation. Despite that,
8:32 your Republican colleagues redraw the
8:34 legislative maps and basically take a
8:37 seat that's purple and a little bit
8:39 Trump and make it quite Republican and
8:41 very hard to imagine you winning and
8:44 essentially you get redistricted out of
8:46 your seat. And I do wonder what that
8:49 meant to you. Was that at all
8:50 radicalizing? I certainly saw how broken
8:54 this political system is. And the fact
8:57 that politicians are allowed to draw
9:00 their own lines is just insane. And it's
9:04 no wonder we have these, you know, crazy
9:06 looking districts that are designed and
9:09 manufactured to guarantee a certain
9:10 outcome,
9:11 >> right? Democrats do it as well.
9:13 >> Well, yeah. I mean, this is not an issue
9:14 of party. This is an issue of power. And
9:17 so, I I experienced that firsthand. I
9:19 ended up running in the district next
9:21 door. It was actually the district I
9:22 grew up in. So, it was a little bit of a
9:24 a homecoming. And I was able to walk
9:26 back on that floor at the beginning of
9:28 the next legislative session. And I I
9:30 wanted to do that cuz I wanted to prove
9:32 that I would still be in the legislature
9:33 still fighting. And we were able to do
9:35 that.
9:36 >> Well, can I pause you for a second
9:37 because I think it's interesting what
9:38 happens in this new district, this bluer
9:42 district. When you're in that seat,
9:44 which you do prevail on, as you just
9:46 said, you describe yourself as a proud
9:48 progressive. You describe yourself as
9:50 working against Republican extremism.
9:53 This is after 2021. And you make
9:55 statements that feel more liberal about
9:59 there being six sexes. This is when you
10:02 describe God as as non-binary.
10:05 What motivated that? Was it tied to the
10:07 fact that you that you were suddenly in
10:09 a bluer district or was it something
10:11 else? Yeah. I don't think I changed. I
10:13 think Republicans at the state capital
10:16 changed. So they changed. Yes. So, you
10:18 know, when I first got elected in 2018,
10:21 I was part of a group of 12 Democrats
10:23 who flipped Republican districts. And
10:25 so, all of that suddenly put pressure on
10:28 the Republican party in Texas to use a
10:30 little more common sense, to work across
10:31 the aisle. The culture war stuff was
10:33 really at a minimum. And then after
10:35 that, the 2021 session, uh, which is
10:38 when I got redistricted out. Those
10:40 sessions really saw a rise in that
10:41 Republican extremism. This is when the
10:44 extreme abortion ban was passed in
10:46 Texas. This is when they passed
10:47 permitless carry, which allows anyone to
10:49 carry a weapon without having to have a
10:51 permit. Uh, this is when they removed
10:54 Dr. King and Frederick Douglas from the
10:56 civics curriculum in Texas, the book
10:58 banning. So, I was put in a position
11:00 where I had to fight back against that
11:01 extremism. So, you mentioned some of my
11:03 comments on gender or on issues
11:06 affecting trans people. It's not like I
11:08 ran for the legislature to talk about
11:09 these things. Again, if you go back to
11:11 my first session, I wanted to talk about
11:13 public education, which is why I ran in
11:14 the first place. I want to talk about
11:15 healthcare, which I have a personal
11:17 experience with as a type 1 diabetic.
11:19 And so now it's kind of ironic that
11:21 they're clipping these things to make it
11:23 sound like I'm the one who was was
11:25 talking about this when in reality it
11:26 was the Republican extremists at the
11:29 capital who were obsessed with talking
11:31 about trans issues, obsessed with
11:33 talking about people's private parts. U
11:36 that wasn't me, that was them that
11:37 changed.
11:38 >> I think I understand the point you're
11:39 making, which is that you felt forced to
11:41 defend a group of people in the moment
11:43 that you did. And I I the only reason
11:45 I'm asking this is because you have
11:47 since said some of those things the
11:50 quote you used missed the mark or were
11:52 were cringey and I'm just trying to
11:55 understand in that moment why you took
11:57 up the mantle that you did. And my
11:59 suspicion is that it probably is some
12:01 combination of of what was happening in
12:03 a legislature but also perhaps in the
12:04 broader culture. We're talking about
12:06 post 2020 when the Democratic Party writ
12:09 large is grappling with what it means in
12:12 their estimation to defend certain
12:13 groups and did it ever go too far?
12:17 >> Yeah, I mean that may have happened in
12:18 the Democratic party at large. I'm not
12:21 really um you know
12:22 >> did it go too far in your case
12:23 >> plugged into to what happened what
12:25 happens nationally with the Democratic
12:26 party. All I can tell you is what
12:27 happens in Texas and in Texas these
12:30 bills are not theoretical.
12:32 >> These bills are actually hurting my
12:34 constituents. The extreme abortion ban
12:36 means that women and girls in my
12:38 legislative district can't get access to
12:40 life-saving healthcare. These bills
12:42 targeting LGBTQ people have real
12:45 ramifications in our state, especially
12:47 when they're written to be overly broad.
12:49 I'm all for if we want to figure out
12:50 when it's appropriate for a trans
12:52 athlete to play in a sport. That's a
12:55 policy discussion that we should have
12:57 and a an issue we should solve. But the
12:59 bill that they were trying to to pass,
13:02 the bill they ultimately did pass, was a
13:04 blanket ban in all cases. It treated
13:06 te-ball the same as varsity baseball.
13:09 And and it's because their goal was to
13:10 score political points off of the backs
13:12 of of a a very small, vulnerable group
13:15 of people in our state. And so, you
13:18 know, my values haven't changed, but I
13:19 was put in a position because of the
13:21 rise in Republican extremism to to
13:24 defend my constituents. Uh, that's
13:26 that's my job and it's exactly what I'm
13:28 going to do in the US Senate on behalf
13:30 of all 31 million Texans.
13:32 >> Got it. And I don't want you to think
13:33 I'm harping on this unnecessarily.
13:35 >> I was drawn to your own comments later
13:37 on suggesting that you had felt at times
13:40 you had taken this to places that you
13:42 looking back were less comfortable with.
13:44 And it it reminded me a little bit of
13:46 somebody you're seeking to be in office
13:48 with, Alexandria Accaziocortez, who has
13:51 assessed this period of time and what
13:53 Democrats said and did in it as woke
13:56 one. And she says it was crazy. And I'm
13:58 just trying to assess whether you
13:59 subscribe to that view in your own case,
14:02 not, you know, on behalf of an entire
14:03 party, but some of the words you use,
14:05 some of the things you said, obviously
14:07 in defense of the people you just
14:09 described.
14:09 >> Yeah. I don't regret standing up for my
14:12 constituents. I would do it again. I
14:14 think what I've regretted is kind of how
14:16 I phrased certain things because it
14:18 obscured the point I was trying to make.
14:20 You know, I've said a lot of things in
14:21 the state legislature over the course of
14:23 four terms. I've been in marathon
14:25 hearings that last 24 hours. So, there
14:27 there's a lot that said and and when you
14:29 pull out maybe the most inarticulate of
14:32 those things to make an attack at, you
14:34 know, I certainly regret not, you know,
14:36 articulating my position more clearly,
14:38 more in a more straightforward way to
14:40 say what I actually mean. And that's
14:41 going to be true, you know, probably for
14:43 my entire time in public service. I'm
14:45 not a perfect person. None of us are.
14:46 And so I'm gonna, you know, always keep
14:49 trying to improve how I talk about
14:50 things so that I'm getting my point
14:52 across.
14:55 I wasn't making a large point about
14:56 American politics or or the Democratic
14:59 Party. I'll leave those to the pundits
15:00 and the commentators.
15:02 All I was trying to say is that I've
15:04 said things imperfectly and I'm going
15:06 [music] to keep working on trying to
15:07 communicate more clearly and
15:08 effectively.
15:13 >> [music]
15:14 >> We'll be right back.
15:20 So, I want to spend some time with your
15:23 specific and unique appeal to moderate
15:26 and to Republican voters. In Times
15:28 polling, we found that you're favored by
15:30 9% of Republicans and 11% of Trump
15:33 voters. That's quite high. And I want to
15:37 understand why you think that has been
15:39 the case. Why do you think that you have
15:42 been such an appealing candidate to both
15:44 Democrats and to Republicans in this era
15:47 when that just doesn't really happen
15:49 anymore?
15:50 >> Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, the
15:52 media tends to think of politics and
15:54 describe politics on a leftto spectrum,
15:57 and that's how we've talked about
15:58 politics for decades now. Uh, so I
16:00 understand that temptation. And in fact,
16:01 I I when I first ran for office, I
16:04 thought of it as left versus right. That
16:06 was how I understood politics. I think
16:08 it's how a lot of people still think
16:10 about politics. But after being in this
16:13 for four terms now, I've been in the
16:14 kind of the belly of the beast in the
16:16 lion's den in the middle of this broken
16:18 system. And I've I've now come to see
16:21 politics as not left versus right, but
16:23 top versus bottom. And those were the
16:25 first words out of my mouth when I
16:26 launched this campaign in September of
16:27 last year. And what I mean by that is
16:30 the people at the top, the Elon Musks of
16:32 the world, the Rupert Murdochs of the
16:34 world, the wealthy people who also
16:36 control our traditional media and social
16:38 media, they spend so much time
16:42 making us angry um getting us to see
16:46 each other as the enemies because our
16:49 unity is a threat to their wealth and
16:51 their power. And they're trying to keep
16:53 us from realizing that there is far more
16:56 that unites us than divides us because
16:58 they know once we recognize that we're
17:00 going to come together across party and
17:02 race and gender and religion and culture
17:05 to take power back for ourselves. And I
17:07 really think that's what you're seeing
17:08 in Texas as we speak.
17:10 >> Well, let's get specific in your
17:11 campaign. What in your mind and based on
17:13 your conversations with voters on a
17:15 policy level is most connecting in this
17:18 bipartisan way? I mean, where everywhere
17:21 I go across the state, I hear from
17:23 Texans who are drowning in this economy
17:25 and who can't afford the basics. And so,
17:27 I think these corrupt tariffs that are
17:30 raising prices in the checkout line are
17:33 top of mind. I think the this new
17:36 corrupt war in the Middle East that is
17:38 driving up gas and diesel prices at the
17:40 pump is top of mind. I've said before
17:43 that we have an affordability
17:45 [clears throat] crisis because we have a
17:46 corruption crisis. And so I think these
17:48 recent developments I think are the kind
17:51 of the straw that broke the camel's
17:53 back. People's wages have been stagnant
17:55 for five decades now. Work has not been
17:57 rewarded. And now these recent price
18:00 spikes have left people across the
18:03 political spectrum fed up. And they are
18:06 ready for change. Not incremental change
18:08 but wholesale change and systemic
18:10 change.
18:10 >> Well, let's talk about specifically what
18:12 you would do about that. the wholesale
18:13 change that you are talking a lot about
18:15 that is appealing to a fair number of
18:17 Republican voters and Democratic voters.
18:20 >> You're talking a lot about billionaires.
18:21 What would you do in this campaign? And
18:23 what has been resonating about changing
18:25 that system?
18:26 >> Yeah. I mean, the reason the richest man
18:27 in the world and and his super PACs are
18:30 spending $200 million to defeat me is
18:32 because they know I don't take corporate
18:34 pack money. Never have, never will. And
18:36 they know that I'm running on systemic
18:38 political reform, banning corporate
18:40 packs and super PACs so billionaires
18:42 can't buy our elections. Banning members
18:45 of Congress from trading stocks and
18:47 enriching themselves while they're in
18:49 office. Overturning Citizens United and
18:52 getting this big money out of our
18:53 politics. I'm also running on banning
18:56 gerrymandering uh in in every state in
18:58 the union, red states and blue states
19:00 alike, so we can have free and fair
19:02 elections again. And I'm also talking
19:04 about term limits. Uh I've already
19:06 pledged to only serve two terms in the
19:09 US Senate. Uh and I want to make that
19:11 true for every senator. Uh I want to
19:13 make that uh true for every member of
19:15 Congress that they are in this to serve
19:18 and then they should make room for
19:20 someone else uh to to have the
19:22 opportunity to serve. These are the kind
19:24 of systemic reforms that I think could
19:26 rebuild a government of by and for the
19:28 people instead of what we have now which
19:30 is a government of by and for the
19:32 billionaires. Those are ambitious and
19:34 those seem like long-term programs of of
19:36 political reform. I'm curious what your
19:40 approach is to something very specific
19:42 and real and short-term, gas prices. How
19:45 are you going to lower gas prices?
19:47 >> Well, I've already laid out a plan to
19:48 suspend the federal gas tax and the
19:50 federal diesel tax, uh, which would
19:52 immediately drop the price of gas by 18
19:54 cents a gallon for Texans. Uh, and it
19:57 would save those who use diesel about
19:59 $200 a year. Now, that's a stop gap
20:01 measure. The only thing that's going to
20:03 really lower these prices is ending this
20:04 disastrous war in Iran. And so I think
20:07 we got to end this this military
20:09 disaster.
20:10 >> What What would you do to end this war?
20:11 I mean, and and do you think current
20:13 senators have done enough?
20:14 >> No. I mean, I think we need checks and
20:16 balances back in our government. I think
20:17 the legislative branch has to reassert
20:19 its authority here. I mean, Congress in
20:22 our constitution is the one that can and
20:24 should declare war. And so the War
20:27 Powers Act, I mean, this is there are
20:28 levers that are at at our disposal to
20:31 rein in these uh overreaches by the
20:34 executive branch. And this is this war
20:36 in Iran is a is a perfect example of
20:38 that. So I I think what we desperately
20:40 need is is to restore those checks and
20:42 balances and check the overreaches of
20:45 the executive branch. I'm curious if I
20:48 can go back to economic policy, how your
20:51 agenda is landing in a state where low
20:54 taxes, limited government, pro business
20:56 policies have been the tradition and
20:58 they've been, you know, fairly popular.
21:00 Among the things you have campaigned on
21:02 are raising the minimum wage, adopting
21:05 universal childare, cancelling medical
21:06 debt, higher taxes on billionaires. that
21:10 would seem potentially like a riskier
21:12 element of a platform that seeks to
21:15 appeal to a state of such moderation.
21:18 >> Well, I mean, if you're still stuck in a
21:19 left versus right framework, then
21:21 moderation makes sense. But I think when
21:23 you're thinking in a vertical framework,
21:26 it's easy to understand how so many
21:28 working people, so many farmers and
21:30 ranchers, so many small business owners
21:32 are just fed up with a rigged system
21:34 that only benefits the wealthiest people
21:36 and the biggest corporations in the
21:38 world. And I think a lot of people in
21:40 Texas think that is pretty common sense.
21:43 That that's not extreme. That is middle
21:45 of the road. And so, you know, I think
21:48 what I'm advocating for is is something
21:50 that can help unrig this system that has
21:54 been hurting so many of us across the
21:55 state, across the country. And I will
21:57 say the systemic reforms I talked about
21:59 earlier, you described them as
22:01 long-term. I think if we abolish the
22:03 filibuster, those reforms don't have to
22:05 be long term. M and you and you do wish
22:08 to abolish the filibuster.
22:09 >> I do. I do. I I think the majority
22:11 should be able to govern in this
22:13 country. The filibuster is not in our
22:14 constitution. It's a Jim Crow relic and
22:17 it has prevented us from making
22:19 necessary progress in this country.
22:21 >> Just to explain, you want the Senate to
22:23 be able to legislate through 51 votes
22:25 majority of the body, not 60, not be
22:27 blocked by filibuster, which the other
22:28 side would tell you, Republican side,
22:30 they have not done because they fear
22:32 what Democrats would do with it. But
22:34 you're saying you're not worried what
22:36 Republicans might turn around and do
22:37 with it if it changes.
22:39 >> I believe the majority should be able to
22:41 govern. I think voters deserve to see
22:42 the results of their vote whether I
22:44 agree with it or not. I mean, what's
22:46 happening right now is because of the
22:48 filibuster and then because of the
22:49 systemic corruption,
22:51 >> we are we gridlock. Yeah. And nothing is
22:54 changing. And so the people of this
22:57 country are are swinging wildly between
22:59 the two parties because nothing happens
23:01 no matter who they elect. And I will
23:03 just say if the choice for a lot of
23:06 people in Texas, if the choice is status
23:07 quo and a demagogue, they're going to
23:10 choose a demagogue. They're going to
23:12 choose what's going to maybe bring some
23:15 change. And and I'd rather create a
23:17 system where we can actually deliver
23:19 that change without, you know,
23:22 emboldening demagogues in our politics.
23:25 And I think the filibuster is the
23:26 primary obstacle uh to being able to
23:28 deliver that progress. Hm. [snorts]
23:31 You're asking a lot of Republicans to
23:33 vote for you. And so I am curious, have
23:36 you voted for a Republican?
23:39 >> Most likely in in the nonpartisan races
23:41 for school board and city council, I
23:43 have certainly voted for Republicans.
23:45 >> But for Congress, for Senate,
23:47 >> no. Uh I don't think I've voted for a
23:49 Republican in a partisan race uh in
23:51 Texas. Uh, and that's [clears throat]
23:52 because in, you know, in my lifetime, at
23:54 least since I've been old enough to
23:55 vote, we have really seen extremism grip
23:58 the Republican party in our state. You
24:00 know, the days of George W. Bush or
24:02 George HW Bush were gone by the time I
24:05 was voting in our state. And that's, I
24:07 think, exactly why so many
24:09 conservatives, small C conservatives,
24:11 are joining this movement of ours. uh
24:13 we've been endorsed by 20 I think it's
24:16 actually more than 20 now current and
24:18 former Republican officials across the
24:20 state
24:20 >> uh because they see that one party rule
24:23 always leads to extremism and corruption
24:26 and that's certainly happened in Texas
24:27 with Republican one party rule but I I
24:29 also I think it it probably happens I've
24:32 never lived in a one party blue state
24:33 but I think you can see in one party
24:36 blue states a lack of delivering for
24:38 working people a lack of responsiveness
24:41 so I I that one party rule in Texas over
24:44 over three decades since I was in
24:45 kindergarten has really led to an
24:47 extremism and a corruption that I've
24:49 I've voted against and worked against my
24:52 entire time in in public service.
24:54 >> I wonder how much when we talk about
24:56 your appeal in this race to Republicans,
24:59 you think your character and biography
25:01 is at the core of that appeal. When I
25:03 think about your success in this race,
25:05 especially with Republicans, I think
25:07 about your fluency with religion,
25:09 specifically with with Christianity and
25:11 the prominence it plays in your
25:12 campaign. It feels like over the past 15
25:15 to 20 years, Republicans have laid claim
25:17 to Christianity. I mean, there's a
25:19 Christian right. There's not really a
25:20 Christian left. Do you think Democrats
25:23 have been too reluctant to do what
25:25 you're doing, which is to appeal to
25:26 voters on faith-based grounds? I I mean
25:29 I think candidates in both parties
25:32 should show up as they are. They should
25:34 be themselves and they should share
25:36 their why. And if that's faith like it
25:39 is for me, then candidates should talk
25:41 about it. From what I can sense is that
25:43 a lot of Democrats have felt
25:45 uncomfortable talking about faith.
25:47 >> And and I think the mistake that people
25:49 in my party have made is that they they
25:53 confuse the separation of church and
25:54 state with a separation of faith and
25:57 politics. We want people to bring their
25:59 faiths, their moralities, their ethics,
26:02 their worldview, their philosophies to
26:04 our politics. We want a politics that is
26:07 spiritually rooted, rooted in something
26:09 deeper than partisanship, than red team
26:12 versus blue team. We want our politics
26:14 to be rooted in timeless values. And and
26:18 I'm not saying it has to be sectarian
26:20 Christianity. I I hope it's more than
26:22 that. I hope it's people from all
26:24 different traditions coming together to
26:25 have a rich conversation about how our
26:28 politics should reflect our our shared
26:30 values. That's the distinction I think
26:32 we have to remember. The separation of
26:34 church and state should never be
26:36 mistaken for a separation of faith and
26:38 politics. Jimmy Carter, Dr. King,
26:40 Dorothy Day, Mr. Rogers, all these
26:42 people brought their faith to their
26:45 their service. And I think that we need
26:47 more of that in this country, not less
26:49 of it. Do you think that if you win this
26:52 race, it will, speaking of faith,
26:54 speaking of character, it will have been
26:55 because of the contrast with your
26:58 opponent Ken Paxton on the question of
27:00 character, on the question of morality,
27:02 or do you think it will be because of
27:03 the contrast in terms of of policy? I
27:07 >> I'm not sure what the difference is
27:08 between those two things. M you know I I
27:10 think our policies are a reflection of
27:12 our morality and I think the corruption
27:15 that I talk about in this campaign is
27:18 deeper than just illegal corruption. I'm
27:21 also talking about a deeper corruption.
27:24 I mean the the rotting of of something
27:27 from within. And we've seen that in
27:30 every part of American life in our
27:32 politics, our government, in our
27:34 churches, we've seen it in business, in
27:37 our economy. There is something deeply
27:39 broken in this country and I hope that
27:41 our little campaign in Texas can be a
27:44 part of a much larger movement toward
27:48 spiritual renewal and fighting that
27:51 corruption at its root. So yes, I I hope
27:53 this campaign in our state is a part of
27:55 something much bigger. On the subject of
27:57 what it would look like if you become a
28:00 Democratic senator from Texas and if
28:02 Democrats do win the Senate back, you'll
28:05 become part of a system that you that
28:06 you've characterized multiple times in
28:08 this conversation as broken. And so I
28:09 want to ask you how you're going to
28:10 navigate that. Let's say Democrats have
28:12 a slim majority. That seems like the the
28:14 likely scenario if they were to flip the
28:17 Senate. And I imagine you'll suddenly be
28:19 in the middle of fierce debates among
28:21 Democrats over what the Democratic
28:23 majority should be focused on. And I do
28:26 want to understand what you think that
28:27 mandate will be if if your colleagues in
28:29 the Democratic party want to suddenly
28:31 impeach the president or a member of the
28:33 cabinet. Is that what you think your
28:35 mandate is? Is there someone in the
28:37 cabinet you want to see impeached? Or is
28:39 that not at all what you want this to be
28:41 about?
28:42 >> Well, my mandate, if we're successful in
28:44 this race, will be to take on corruption
28:48 and lower costs. Uh those are the two
28:50 things we've been talking about every
28:51 day on the campaign trail are the two
28:52 things that we have heard from voters
28:55 across this state. And so, you know, I
28:58 want us uh in the United States Senate,
29:00 hopefully on a bipartisan basis, not
29:01 just Democrats, to do those two things.
29:03 We should tackle the corruption in our
29:05 system, whether we see it in the
29:07 executive branch, in the legislative
29:08 branch, in the judicial branch, and then
29:10 we should after we're able to clean up
29:13 that corruption, start delivering for
29:15 working people. Um, when we unrig this
29:18 economy, when we unrig this political
29:20 system, that will allow us to actually
29:24 get this economy back on track so that
29:26 people who work hard can get ahead.
29:27 >> That might sound to some people like
29:29 impeach and then legislate.
29:30 >> Well, again, I as a state lawmaker, I
29:32 sat in an impeachment hearing. It's
29:34 ironically against the person I'm
29:37 running I'm running against. Yes. Um,
29:39 >> and I characterized it at the time, this
29:42 is long before the Senate race against
29:44 Kim Paxton. I characterized it as the
29:46 most important vote
29:47 >> that I was going to cast as a lawmaker
29:49 because we were voting to remove a
29:51 dulyeleed public official from office,
29:53 which is a a major thing to consider.
29:56 And I I carefully evaluated the evidence
29:59 in that trial. I read every document
30:01 line by line. And I joined with
30:03 Republicans on the other side of the
30:05 aisle who saw the same thing I saw. And
30:08 we came to the same conclusion that this
30:09 man is unfit for public office. and I
30:12 did my duty in that impeachment uh vote
30:15 and and if an impeachment vote comes up
30:18 in the US Senate, if I'm a part of an
30:19 impeachment trial, I will carefully
30:21 evaluate the evidence and I will vote
30:23 accordingly. Um but I'm certainly not
30:25 going to not going to prejudge an
30:26 impeachment trial uh on a podcast.
30:30 >> Understood. But do you think President
30:32 Trump is central to the corruption
30:33 problem you're talking about? I I mean
30:35 I'm c I certainly think that we've seen
30:36 unprecedented corruption in this
30:38 administration and I think it angers
30:40 people in both political parties
30:42 including some of the president's
30:43 strongest supporters. Again, people in
30:46 Texas, including people in my family,
30:48 voted for President Trump in 2024
30:50 because they thought he was going to
30:52 lower costs.
30:53 >> They thought he was going to drain the
30:54 swamp. They thought he was going to end
30:56 the wars. They thought he was going to
30:58 release the Epstein files. But more than
31:00 a year into this administration,
31:02 everything is more expensive because of
31:04 these corrupt tariffs. The swamp is
31:06 bigger than it's ever been before
31:07 because of this corruption that you're
31:09 talking about. We have a new corrupt war
31:11 in the Middle East and the Epstein files
31:14 have still not been fully released. So,
31:16 there's a lot of disillusionment in our
31:19 state, including among the president's
31:21 core supporters.
31:22 >> I have a final question for you as I
31:23 know you have to go to a rally.
31:25 >> Yeah.
31:25 >> Um there's a lot going on. Let's say
31:28 everything I've just been describing in
31:30 these scenarios doesn't come to pass.
31:31 You do not win in November and Senator
31:35 Elect Paxton, despite all the scandals
31:37 that have trailed him, goes to
31:39 Washington. Texas stays red. Democrats
31:41 don't take the Senate. What will it say
31:44 to you that Democrats couldn't win in
31:49 this political environment when the
31:51 president is this unpopular? And what
31:53 would it say that you couldn't win
31:55 Texas? Well, it'll mean that we have a
31:58 lot more work to do in Texas and the
32:00 work will continue long after this
32:02 campaign. Whether we're successful or
32:03 not, we are part of a a relay race of
32:06 Texans who have been fighting for the
32:09 promise of this state. And even if we're
32:11 not successful in this election, that
32:14 work will continue and hopefully we'll
32:16 learn lessons from from this campaign,
32:18 lessons on what to do and maybe lessons
32:20 on what not to do. and uh and I'll be
32:23 proud to have played that role uh in
32:25 this much longer and larger movement.
32:28 >> Will it have meant though that money
32:30 ultimately conquered the momentum that
32:34 we are seeing the Democrats have in
32:36 these red states?
32:37 >> Big money is powerful and I'm not going
32:39 to sugarcoat it, but my faith teaches me
32:41 that it is nothing compared to people
32:44 power. And when we put our faith in our
32:47 neighbors, in our collective ability to
32:50 make change, that will one day pay off.
32:54 It may not happen tomorrow. It may not
32:56 happen on November 3rd, may not happen
32:58 in our lifetimes, but faith means living
33:00 a larger story. And so, we're going to
33:03 keep running that relay race, and we'll
33:05 pass it off to the folks who come after
33:07 us, and one day we will win. [music]
33:17 >> [music]
33:18 >> Well, Representative Hillary Co, thank
33:20 you for your time. Appreciate it very
33:23 much. Good luck with [music] your rally.
33:24 >> Thank you. Appreciate you.
33:31 >> We'll be right back.
33:37 Here's [music]
33:48 what else you need [music] another day.
33:51 France's government ordered curfews in
33:53 some towns and neighborhoods on Monday
33:55 night as it tried to reassert control
33:58 after the country's worst [music] riots
34:00 and looting in decades. Amid widespread
34:03 criticism of the government's handling
34:05 of the riots, France's interior minister
34:08 said he had offered his resignation
34:09 [music] to President Emanuel Macron, but
34:12 that it had not been accepted.
34:14 Meanwhile, [music] the violence quickly
34:16 became a political issue. With months to
34:19 go before a presidential election,
34:20 France's right-wing party national rally
34:24 sought to portray the violence as
34:25 [music] the failure of its left-wing
34:27 rivals, especially France Unbowed, a
34:31 party whose presidential candidate has
34:33 supported [music] the protests. Those
34:35 protests began as peaceful
34:37 demonstrations over school conditions
34:39 and the cost of living, but descended
34:41 [music]
34:42 into scenes of masked agitators
34:45 attacking government buildings [music]
34:47 and breaking into stores.
34:59 Today's [music] episode was produced by
35:00 Diana Win, Lexi DL, and Eric Krupky. It
35:04 was edited by Rachel [music] Quester and
35:06 Paige Cowed, fact checked by Susan Lee,
35:10 contains music by Marian Lozano and Dan
35:13 Powell, and was engineered [music] by
35:15 Chris Wood. Our theme music is by
35:17 Wonderly. Special thanks to Lauren
35:20 McGahi.
35:23 [music]
35:32 That's it for the daily. I'm Michael
35:34 [music] Borrow. See you tomorrow.